I hear and can appreciate that we need to address conservative white women with compassion and curiosity. I’ve been a nurse for over 20 years and have really had to learn how to address the anti vaxxers in a way that is kind and compassionate. I guess where I’m at right now though is just that I’m so tired. I’m so TIRED of promoting public health and access to care. A big part of me wants to just sit back for 4 years and let them get everything they’ve asked for. (I know that’s harsh. I know! It’s all so hard.)
As someone who works in reproductive healthcare, same.💜 We screamed from the rooftops that Roe was going to fall but no one seemed to hear us, let alone believe us. *Deep sigh.* The horrors persist but so do we! 💪🏼
The thing I am figuring out for myself is that I do a lot of “screaming from the rooftops” myself (usually in the form of internet posts) but I could stand to have way more conversations. How many times have you been convinced by someone “shouting”? I can only speak for myself but the majority of times I’ve actually learned from someone it’s been through much more thoughtful means of communication.
I’m also a nurse (practitioner) in public health, and am a women’s health NP. Covid anti-vaxxers almost made me quit, and now anti-contraception rhetoric is pushing other buttons. I feel this and I also feel emboldened to find reproductive health organizations I can fight for women with!
I had soma y conversations with my conservative white female family and friends… they are so entrenched and convinced *I* am the brainwashed one… that the conversations became counterproductive. Looking for new ways forward.
This isn’t really a conversation for me (Black woman voter) but all I can think while reading this is “white women voted in their own selfish self-interest to preserve a white mail supremacy they benefit from AND the solution to that problem needs to be to coddle and placate their white tears even further”
I love hearing your thoughts because I think this is a conversation for everyone. White women are hurting people, maliciously or not, it’s happening. It’s been happening forever and there are a lot of us who want it to stop and are too blind by our own privileged bias to know what to do. Black women shouldn’t have to teach the world how not to be racist assholes. I am thankful for the women in the black community who chose to speak up because us white women do need to take note and extreme change needs to come from us learning and being held accountable for our actions.
100% valid interpretation. It’s not your responsibility, it’s ours (other white women). This is a hard approach for me to accept as well but, after some self reflection, I decided to delete the meme I posted of Jessica Lange from AHS calling people who voted for cheaper groceries “stupid sluts.” Baby steps.🤣
Ugh…. It’s like why do we have to go high when they go low though… but truly, I think we all need to stop being so quiet. We let MAGA yell and scream their lies and it’s been working really well for them.
This is also how I read it. I love Emily’s articles, but I cannot agree that coddling white women is the way to go. I’ve been seeing too much of this, and getting them on our side is not going to happen by pandering to their wants and needs. Besides, if their fears are red dyes in foods causing childhood death (false), migrants flooding the border to murder them and their children (also false), etc, I’m not sure how we win them over besides with facts that say these things are false. But we did that, and they didn’t believe us. They chose fear and denial over facts. I’m not sure how we prove to them that the right is lying to them.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and I'm in agreement with you.
For me, this essay made me think about how many conservatives, especially religious conservatives, truly believe they're oppressed (based on conservatives I know). It's plain as day in those two screenshots. Is being told you voted for a misogynist (a fact) equivalent to being told to fuck off by your mom? (And don't get me started on labeling the beliefs of an opposing political party "social insanity," while being sad to be called a "traitor to [your] gender.") While I'm not condoning harassment and bullying, it's hard to know where to start if you're not willing to validate the perceived victimhood of someone with a lot of privilege (i.e. coddle and placate their white tears, as you so succinctly put it).
🫶🫶. Truly. And if they have sons it’s even worse. Because they believe their white sons are at a disadvantage to women.. and throw in trans there too just because.
In all the finger-pointing and such that's happening now, I'm like, "Why can't we all agree simply to point fingers at the ultra-rich?"
Republicans have done a great job convincing folks that the reason they can't get ahead (read: make a decent wage, have access to healthcare and affordable housing) is the immigrants or the "childless cat ladies" or the (insert any group but straight white Christian men here) when the real reason the average person can't get ahead is because the richest people are able to throw vast amounts of money into politics (and political-adjacent things like social media platforms and news outlets) to ensure that they keep getting richer and that everyone else keeps blaming each other.
Not sure how we get out of this without also having a ton of money behind the "extremely, extremely rich people are the problem" message, though.
I think this will be a message the Dems can lean into more after everyone sees how the ultra rich help reek havoc in the Trump admin. People often need to see and experience something to actually believe it.
Agree. I said during the second debate, why won’t someone say the elephant in the room! Why won’t someone say it’s those who want to exploit v. those who will get exploited? Every time the right cries freedom, add ‘to exploit’ after.
It feels like there’s this big, obvious thing the left won’t say.
Yes! They use the culture war stuff to divert the attention from what they are actually doing. It’s not immigrants or women or the poor you should be mad at - it’s the rich. They are gaming the system so you will always have less.
The two most disappointing things for me about Harris's campaign was here persistent drumbeat about "the middle class" which seemed to completely paper over the existence of poor and working class people, and the window we got into the role of billionaire financiers into political calculations when it was the funders pulling their support that finally got Biden to step down.
I honestly wonder if the Democratic party is the answer right now or if we need something new. Do Democrats really care about poor and working class people?
Totally agree on point one. Re: point two ... that's more of a political system problem than a Democratic party problem.
I think Democrats care way more about poor and working class people than Republicans do. However, it feels like you can't be part of the conversation at all without a bazillion dollars in backing for ads and signs and rallies and so forth. I don't know what the answer is.
For sure I don't blame Biden or Harris for #2 but it was singularly depressing to see how much the decision hung on the heir of Disney and what she wants to do with her money
This! Can someone create some sort of Q-Anon-style conspiracy that unveils the real conspiracy of billionaires screwing everyone over? Something that presents facts as an appealing conspiracy theory for the types who are susceptible to that stuff in a way that they'll be willing to believe, but it's actually real??
As a former deeply conservative very religious white woman, I wholeheartedly agree — and yet, I feel this resistance. I do believe that discomfort has to be felt by those who are currently living inside privilege. I know to them privilege is a buzz word we can’t use, but I had to realize that I assumed I was loving and good and then had to reconcile that others did NOT feel that way about me. I had people call me on my bigotry, on the casual way I could ignore realities beyond my own because it was all I knew. That discomfort sparked curiosity for me. I’m so grateful for the people that held me accountable for that. I don’t know how to merge all these truths into the most powerful approach.
Honestly, and this is going to maybe sound insane, but women I didn’t know were the first.
They called me out on social media and I think it was the first time I had faced swift repercussions for something that was a casual thought for me. I wasn’t “canceled” I didn’t have a platform or anything, they just commented and said this was hateful to them. And I was genuinely shocked. (For context I grew up in a very, very homogenous white nationalist religion, and then had parents who would only help with college expenses if I attended that religions college which is also very much not diverse). Then I think the most powerful thing for me was genuinely people’s stories on Instagram. Seeing other people’s lived experience, getting to be exposed to ideas I had never come into contact with. I learned it was my job to keep doing the work and picked up the task, but I would have NEVER gained the curiosity without someone saying hey no, this is hatred.
I am not sure what the answers are, but I do know I once believed deeply that my religion co-signing hatred was an act of choosing God and consequently not hatred at all.
I’m ashamed of that now, but I also find hope that if I could outgrow and undo, so could others.
You mention curiosity on your part, which I think is key to persuasion, learning, and growth. Unfortunately, it seems to be missing more than not in a lot of people, along with critical thinking skills. With the algorithm-controlled media silos we exist in now, people receive dopamine hits every time their biases are confirmed and aren't likely to question or criticize anything that confirms their bias. Conversely, because their biases are constantly being confirmed by the content they're being served, they immediately reject anything that challenges their biases and dig in. It's going to be tough to break through this issue with people who aren't naturally curious and open to learning and growth. If you have any insight into how people held you accountable (such as words they used, tone, etc.), that might be helpful. But it might also be that you were more receptive to challenging your beliefs. Either way, thank you for sharing!
I know this won’t sound very popular or maybe be even helpful, but genuinely people just didn’t allow me to be comfortable.
I had PLENTY of reinforcement of my beliefs, and I had plenty of echos.
But I also had people who just also didn’t shy away from telling me this is so dismissive of other people. This ignores my mom’s experience with abortion, etc. etc. etc. Maybe one of the valuable pieces of information is no one attacked me or only told me they hated me, but they did hold strong boundaries. As an example, I did have someone say I can’t follow you this is hurtful to me and I’m disappointed.
And that was after sharing something I hadn’t even really read I just was in such an echo chamber I didn’t check myself before even sharing. (This is so embarrassing but I’m trying to be helpful). I genuinely believe there was enough discomfort I just learned to first think twice. And that space to think twice, made space for curiosity that was then filled with other voices willing to be vulnerable and share.
I will also admit I am a naturally curious person, I like seeking information, I don’t mind challenging topics — but I was also just in such an echo chamber of fear that validated my stances — I truly believe the people who introduced discomfort into my reality did so much for me. Otherwise my only worldview was this idea that Christian family values are being attacked. This sounds insane to me now, but this is the messaging I was getting at church, online, in math class on campus, EVERYWHERE.
Some of the people who challenged stances I shared are still my good friends today, and that’s valuable too. People who will hold you accountable AND talk you through your stance so you can actually find your blind spots without immediately being called a horrible person. I think we often underestimate how much curiosity inside a very homogenous community is snuffed out and threatened with a loss of community. So the people outside it who would share and also listen helped too. But absolutely also the people who held boundaries with me were invaluable.
As a small caveat I don’t want to give the impression I was some insane bully lol. These were not chronic experiences. I ran into this discomfort only a few times. But still now years and years later I feel those moments and I remember them, and I think they mattered. My views were very singular, very accidentally prejudice, and extremely dismissive.
Some people simply refused to be dismissed. And that mattered.
I hope this helps at all I’m doing my best to describe 😅
My experience is that “uneducated” or “misinformed” white women are very defensive about those monikers being used. They want to feel like their experience and wisdom matter. They don’t care about your advanced degree or your quote from The Atlantic. They care about their daily lives, and the impact of the government’s decision-making on them personally.
I haven’t been quick to extend that kind of empathy. But I can see how it’s needed.
Yes! And in fact, touting our advanced degrees is not only not impressive to them, but they consider it a hit to our credibility. I think it’s better to leave that out of it.
This is my experience too. My MIL (dropped out of college) posted an article after the election 2016 that took umbrage with the uneducated moniker because people who don’t have degrees often are experts in other areas. It wasn’t wrong, but it also sounded really grievance filled (i.e. voting on vibes rather than reasons).
Yeah, that makes complete sense. I’ve been thinking about this all morning from reading Emily’s article.. how do we create “vibes” for this group that align with their value system, but vibes infused with justice and truth and logic.
Agreed with the comments saying they're not really sure how to do this. I think part of the problem (at least for me) is our difference in values are over very personal issues/human rights issues. I don't know how to have a conversation over our differences without getting emotional, which leads to them getting defensive or just disregarding what we're saying. HOW do you have a conversation to validate their concerns and also convince them of your own, when their values are deeply hurtful to you? As a Latina voter who has gone through IVF, I just can't have some of these conversations without being triggered.
Would love to hear how others have done this and how to not immediately get emotional, if anyone feels comfortable sharing.
This is exactly where I am. I haven’t been able to speak to my trump-voting, 72-yo mother since the election because it feels so personal. How can you say you love me and my kids and then vote against their lives? I know she doesn’t see it this way. But I don’t have the capacity (right now, at least) to have a productive conversation. Perhaps just more time is needed for for the emotions to settle.
Your feelings are completely valid and they also may shift over time. You can set boundaries that you are comfortable with. That doesn’t have to mean never talking to your mom again if you had a good relationship before. Bottom line is that we have to live with these people for the most part, but we still have to protect ourselves while we do the good work. I felt this exact same way and I ended up crying and telling my mom exactly how I felt. It wasn’t even received the best, but I still felt a whole lot better after. The bandaid was ripped off and it actually led to us discussing how we may want to do some activism together about the things we agree on. Just wanted to share because this is so hard and there are so many ways it can go. Sending a lot of love to you. It’s really hard to navigate all of this right now.
Thank you so much for sharing this. It’s a huge win that you were able to talk with her about it, even if her response wasn’t all that you might have hoped. I successfully set a boundary with mine today by texting her that I’m too upset to talk right now, after she tried calling me. I’ve realized that the conversation must be had at some point soon though, however messy, if we’re to continue being in any kind of authentic relationship.
I feel for you. It’s so incredibly difficult. Sending you love. Please check back in whenever you end up having the conversation. I will be thinking about you!
I was raised conservative, then was apolitical for a long time. Accounts like Emily’s made me curious and helped me realize I didn’t know what my actual beliefs were. I did a ton of reading and now feel that I have pretty concrete beliefs that I can easily defend with data and anecdote.
All that to say, after the election I posted my recommended reading list to my IG with blurbs about why I liked the book and what it taught me. I recieved a lot of great responses from both liberal and conservative friends. Maybe it won’t change minds, but it’s a start!
Caste was really so eye opening. Loved it. Wish it was required reading in high school. Her book The Warmth of Other Suns is also great! Another great one is The Meth Lunches by Kim Foster.
I was thinking about this today. The messaging in my echo chamber of TikTok is that we should stop communicating with anyone who voted for Trump. While that makes white women feel better, it doesn’t give us anywhere to go, give us any votes to gain. Building coalition is one of the only ways forward for the left
Right. As white women, we are still in danger under this administration, but we still hold so much privilege and protection compared to marginalized groups. I believe the onus is on us to figure out how this happened, find our common values, and spend the next 4 years learning how to talk with other women. There are too many of these women to just walk away from. Tempting though it may be, it’s not really feasible and certainly won’t yield the result we want in the next election cycle.
I think this is such a valid point. We focus so much on our virtue and do that by finger pointing, wearing stupid bracelets to signal we are “one of the good ones,” posting quotes and that’s makes us feel superior. Yet many (I’m not saying all) of these women didn’t lift a finger to get Kamala elected or to spread her message. Whats done is done. You’re right time to build that bridge.
Yes! I think we have to frame this properly, too - I am a straight, cis white woman, so I need to use that privilege to reach out so the queer and trans folx, as well as women of color, aren’t being forced to do the work that is SO much more treacherous. I don’t think non-queer white women should be cutting off Trump-voting family just for that, we are the ones who must do the outreach.
To be honest, I don't know where to start. I do believe, though, that we need to meet people where they are at. Not where we expect them to be, not where we think they should be, but where they are actually at. It's really easy to fall into the trap of immediately writing someone off whose views don't align perfectly with our own because of how polarizing everything has become. I have been guilty of dismissing even close family members because I feel our value systems do not align based on ideas of very specific problems where there is nuance. This has become a "I'm a good person because of what I believe and you are a bad person because of how you voted." In order to keep myself from spiraling into a dark depression, I have to believe that the majority of people don't want to cause harm to others, but that they voted out of desperation and panic about things that directly affect them. I'm incredibly angry that more than half America voted the way they did. I'm very angry that we will have to endure another Trump presidency. I'm very angry that people can sit behind a keyboard and type whatever vile, awful thing they want and there are no repercussions, but because I care so much about the things I voted for, I want to genuinely connect with people who were taken advantage of by the fear mongering so that what is happening right now doesn't happen again. This election cycle has activated a part of me that has taken a back seat. I want to have the hard conversations and I want to listen in order to find a solution. I try to view every person I come in contact with as not an extension of Donald Trump but a scared American who was grossly taken advantage of by him. Of course there are a lot of bad apples...but we have to start somewhere.
I live in a very strongly pro-Trump area. I genuinely am not sure how to do this. I lived here for years until college. It was only leaving here and having actual life experiences during college and grad school that I started to realign my values and change my views. The problem is that these women often do think they are doing "what's best for everyone" because I really think they can't fathom that not everyone is in the same situation they are in. I think the key is making them understand not everyone is like them but I don't know how to do that.
These comments are so thoughtful and insightful. Im thankful for everyone here. I work as a family nurse practitioner at a direct primary care. This allows for us to know use insurance and people pay a monthly fee. Im been a nurse for 10 years serving women. In postpartum and labor and delivery and the women are not well on both sides. The alexa clark and MAHA is absolutely blaring over in primary care. Im constantly asked about seed oils, lists of supplements to go over, begging me to help while calling any prescription medication is labeled as cancer inducing. FEAR for peoples health is driving a lot of my patient care. And this practice i work at is only mds and apps. This is not functional medicine with natropaths we fight to find the medium line at all times. The distrust of vaccines, mammograms, hormone treatment is the work i have to combat daily. And let me tell you i have so much empathy. This women are dismissed in every aspect of their life. They are unwell! And they need time validation and grace and we have to build so much rapport with each other before we can even reach common ground. Im doing the work daily with both parties of women but its not enough. I want to fuel the other side of alexa clark. And me the wellness mama we ALL need. Not to mention my daughters were born IVF and the thoughts right after the election were they took away my rights and my beautiful daughters. And the reality is i will still show up and take the time to explain why we dont recommend thermograms, please do not be afraid of seed oils, etc etc. IF anyone wants to help to build a social platform for ALL of this. Please message me, i want to work for you all ❤️
Someone I follow on IG (Fred Joseph) made a comment I thought was very accurate. He said that white women voting for Trump view themselves as white first and women second. They voted to protect the whiteness at the expense of their gender. I think there is a lot of truth to that, and it's an interesting angle to consider in Emily's discussion of influencing.
I think the best way we reach other women is through our shared beliefs/interests. A “yes, and” approach wherein we affirm their core values (for example, motherhood matters) while laying out how those areas thrive with left-leaning policies for ALL individuals, not only those with privilege. The idea that traditional families flounder under democratic rule is simply untrue. As a new full-time mother (who works part-time from home without help) I’ve found that tapping into commonalities that benefit us all can go a long way. Childcare and rights for women and LGBTQIA+ folks (these policies will undoubtedly impact our kids!) helps speak to these mama bear types with logical reasoning and hopefully engenders a sense of camaraderie.
How are you responding to these women who say things like, “Trump gave the power to the states for abortion. He didn’t ban them” or “my body my choice unless it’s a vaccine” I want to be understanding. I also want to shove my head through drywall.
2. “You’re right that was inconsistent with my body my choice framing. Rather than bodily autonomy, what about other women having the ability to get an abortion is concerning to you.”
I feel like we have to start with curiosity and see our own myopic views for what they are.
I say that now, here, but I am not ready to be this bigger person yet. I have such a visceral reaction in my body when I hear support for Trump. It must be that they see it a similar way - a visceral reaction to dems - and we have to understand what is fueling those reactions. One day, when the dust settles and I don’t want to scream in all their faces 🫠.
I’ve started having these “conversations” on a post on IG. There has actually been some good exchanges. One person even thanked me for bringing new information to her attention. It’s hard though. And I don’t understand where people are getting information. Some of it is so outrageous. Anyway. In this together. Would really love a playbook of responses though lol.
To the first question I might say something like “yes, the states are now trying to regulate abortions. Why do you think they need to be regulated?” [I don’t know that I’d personally concede that he left it up to the states. I’m not convinced that he’s not going to try to ban abortions on a federal level., not by explicitly saying “abortions are banned everywhere,” but by making it functionally impossible. But I digress] Then really listen to what they say. Depending on their answers, the follow up could go in any number of directions. But I feel like their objections are more often than not rooted in protection of the unborn baby, they see abortion as murder, the standard pro-life argument, and if that’s the case, then why would that be left up to the states? If they truly think it’s murder, then why would it be okay for a state to say that it’s allowed? If it’s because they want it to not happen after a certain period in the pregnancy, why should that be left up the states? If this person thinks there is a point at which abortions shouldn’t be allowed, then why shouldn’t it be universal at the federal level, why should states have the power to pick different timelines? And if there is a certain point at which this person feels it’s no longer acceptable for a woman to have an abortion for whatever reason, what would they think if a state voted to allow it up until later date? If we’re saying we’re leaving it up to states then that that should be okay right? We’re seeing lots of women suffering (or even dying) in states where there are restrictions on abortions, why should the protections of women’s health (and even lives) be left up to the states? A woman shouldn’t be subject to the whims of her particular state, of course, and hopefully these questions might lead them to question their thought process and to agree with that on their own.
Ugh, the vaccines [screams to the heavens]. I hate that vaccines have become something so political now. I guess, it’s a question of if they’re saying that because they are anti-vax or anti-abortion or both! If it’s anti-vax, I would say something like “the choice to have an abortion in many ways can’t be compared to the choice to get vaccinated. An abortion affects only the person who was pregnant; it is not contagious. A woman who had an abortion coming into contact with other women is not going to make them have an abortion; whereas, a woman who is sick with COVID or the flu or measles may spread that disease to others.
Also, vaccine requirements are not new. If you went to public school like me, you had to have certain vaccinations to keep yourself and your fellow classmates safe. That is the point of vaccines, they are in service of the great good. We have gotten them without the politically-inspired pushback that we saw in response to the COVID vaccines (vaccines that Trump fast tracked and bragged about by the way) for decades. Also, some people did choose not to get vaccinated, no one showed up at their house forcing them to get vaccinated. But there were consequences to choosing not get to vaccinated as with any other choice we make in life.” If it’s both, then I’d add Alia’s response at the end, I like that one! And I feel like it would circle back to my conversation at the top.
Thanks for your thoughtful response! I feel like my brain went offline for a few days after the election. It’s starting to work again lol. The anti-vax stuff is maddening in some ways given we’ve all likely been vaccinated as kids for public (and personal) safety. But suddenly, they’re not to be trusted? I’m working on listening more and arguing less as a general rule! Thank you again for your insight — I’m going to circle back to it in future conversations!
Gosh, I hear you! I know it wasn’t *everyone’s* fault, but I was angry at literally everyone Wednesday and Thursday. I’m starting to calm down and I’m able to be a little more rational now haha. I like your plan to listen more and argue less. I used to shy away from arguing because I didn’t feel like I could reliably pull up relevant facts and figures but it seems like facts don’t actually matter that much to people anymore. People voted based on the way they feel, so that’s what I’m listening for now.
I've been thinking a lot about this lately, and I really think Pete Buttigieg models this so well. He's been on this approach for years. Living in middle America, it's exhausting how much people talk down to you. I don't want to coddle people whom I believe directly endangered me and my daughter and so so many other people, but we have to figure out how to welcome them in, not talk down to and ostracize. We can't just lecture all the time.
This right here. The Democrats really need to work on their messaging. They aren’t connecting with the working class, and they didn’t really connect with the MAHA women. The messaging has always kind of been “Trump is a danger” and not really about the ways they would address the concerns that are pushing people to vote for Trump.
I hear and can appreciate that we need to address conservative white women with compassion and curiosity. I’ve been a nurse for over 20 years and have really had to learn how to address the anti vaxxers in a way that is kind and compassionate. I guess where I’m at right now though is just that I’m so tired. I’m so TIRED of promoting public health and access to care. A big part of me wants to just sit back for 4 years and let them get everything they’ve asked for. (I know that’s harsh. I know! It’s all so hard.)
As someone who works in reproductive healthcare, same.💜 We screamed from the rooftops that Roe was going to fall but no one seemed to hear us, let alone believe us. *Deep sigh.* The horrors persist but so do we! 💪🏼
The thing I am figuring out for myself is that I do a lot of “screaming from the rooftops” myself (usually in the form of internet posts) but I could stand to have way more conversations. How many times have you been convinced by someone “shouting”? I can only speak for myself but the majority of times I’ve actually learned from someone it’s been through much more thoughtful means of communication.
I’m also a nurse (practitioner) in public health, and am a women’s health NP. Covid anti-vaxxers almost made me quit, and now anti-contraception rhetoric is pushing other buttons. I feel this and I also feel emboldened to find reproductive health organizations I can fight for women with!
I had soma y conversations with my conservative white female family and friends… they are so entrenched and convinced *I* am the brainwashed one… that the conversations became counterproductive. Looking for new ways forward.
This isn’t really a conversation for me (Black woman voter) but all I can think while reading this is “white women voted in their own selfish self-interest to preserve a white mail supremacy they benefit from AND the solution to that problem needs to be to coddle and placate their white tears even further”
I love hearing your thoughts because I think this is a conversation for everyone. White women are hurting people, maliciously or not, it’s happening. It’s been happening forever and there are a lot of us who want it to stop and are too blind by our own privileged bias to know what to do. Black women shouldn’t have to teach the world how not to be racist assholes. I am thankful for the women in the black community who chose to speak up because us white women do need to take note and extreme change needs to come from us learning and being held accountable for our actions.
And of course these are just my thoughts. I could be saying all of the wrong things. But I want to learn. And I want to be better.
100% valid interpretation. It’s not your responsibility, it’s ours (other white women). This is a hard approach for me to accept as well but, after some self reflection, I decided to delete the meme I posted of Jessica Lange from AHS calling people who voted for cheaper groceries “stupid sluts.” Baby steps.🤣
Ugh…. It’s like why do we have to go high when they go low though… but truly, I think we all need to stop being so quiet. We let MAGA yell and scream their lies and it’s been working really well for them.
This is also how I read it. I love Emily’s articles, but I cannot agree that coddling white women is the way to go. I’ve been seeing too much of this, and getting them on our side is not going to happen by pandering to their wants and needs. Besides, if their fears are red dyes in foods causing childhood death (false), migrants flooding the border to murder them and their children (also false), etc, I’m not sure how we win them over besides with facts that say these things are false. But we did that, and they didn’t believe us. They chose fear and denial over facts. I’m not sure how we prove to them that the right is lying to them.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and I'm in agreement with you.
For me, this essay made me think about how many conservatives, especially religious conservatives, truly believe they're oppressed (based on conservatives I know). It's plain as day in those two screenshots. Is being told you voted for a misogynist (a fact) equivalent to being told to fuck off by your mom? (And don't get me started on labeling the beliefs of an opposing political party "social insanity," while being sad to be called a "traitor to [your] gender.") While I'm not condoning harassment and bullying, it's hard to know where to start if you're not willing to validate the perceived victimhood of someone with a lot of privilege (i.e. coddle and placate their white tears, as you so succinctly put it).
🫶🫶. Truly. And if they have sons it’s even worse. Because they believe their white sons are at a disadvantage to women.. and throw in trans there too just because.
In all the finger-pointing and such that's happening now, I'm like, "Why can't we all agree simply to point fingers at the ultra-rich?"
Republicans have done a great job convincing folks that the reason they can't get ahead (read: make a decent wage, have access to healthcare and affordable housing) is the immigrants or the "childless cat ladies" or the (insert any group but straight white Christian men here) when the real reason the average person can't get ahead is because the richest people are able to throw vast amounts of money into politics (and political-adjacent things like social media platforms and news outlets) to ensure that they keep getting richer and that everyone else keeps blaming each other.
Not sure how we get out of this without also having a ton of money behind the "extremely, extremely rich people are the problem" message, though.
Exactly. When billionaires exist the middle class can't. Make it visible somehow!
I think this will be a message the Dems can lean into more after everyone sees how the ultra rich help reek havoc in the Trump admin. People often need to see and experience something to actually believe it.
Agree. I said during the second debate, why won’t someone say the elephant in the room! Why won’t someone say it’s those who want to exploit v. those who will get exploited? Every time the right cries freedom, add ‘to exploit’ after.
It feels like there’s this big, obvious thing the left won’t say.
Yes! They use the culture war stuff to divert the attention from what they are actually doing. It’s not immigrants or women or the poor you should be mad at - it’s the rich. They are gaming the system so you will always have less.
The two most disappointing things for me about Harris's campaign was here persistent drumbeat about "the middle class" which seemed to completely paper over the existence of poor and working class people, and the window we got into the role of billionaire financiers into political calculations when it was the funders pulling their support that finally got Biden to step down.
I honestly wonder if the Democratic party is the answer right now or if we need something new. Do Democrats really care about poor and working class people?
Totally agree on point one. Re: point two ... that's more of a political system problem than a Democratic party problem.
I think Democrats care way more about poor and working class people than Republicans do. However, it feels like you can't be part of the conversation at all without a bazillion dollars in backing for ads and signs and rallies and so forth. I don't know what the answer is.
For sure I don't blame Biden or Harris for #2 but it was singularly depressing to see how much the decision hung on the heir of Disney and what she wants to do with her money
Part of the problem is that everyone sees themselves as middle class 🙃
This! Can someone create some sort of Q-Anon-style conspiracy that unveils the real conspiracy of billionaires screwing everyone over? Something that presents facts as an appealing conspiracy theory for the types who are susceptible to that stuff in a way that they'll be willing to believe, but it's actually real??
As a former deeply conservative very religious white woman, I wholeheartedly agree — and yet, I feel this resistance. I do believe that discomfort has to be felt by those who are currently living inside privilege. I know to them privilege is a buzz word we can’t use, but I had to realize that I assumed I was loving and good and then had to reconcile that others did NOT feel that way about me. I had people call me on my bigotry, on the casual way I could ignore realities beyond my own because it was all I knew. That discomfort sparked curiosity for me. I’m so grateful for the people that held me accountable for that. I don’t know how to merge all these truths into the most powerful approach.
It’s interesting how a word like privilege could come to be considered a buzz word and get twisted into being interpreted as an insult.
Who was able to reach you to do that?
Honestly, and this is going to maybe sound insane, but women I didn’t know were the first.
They called me out on social media and I think it was the first time I had faced swift repercussions for something that was a casual thought for me. I wasn’t “canceled” I didn’t have a platform or anything, they just commented and said this was hateful to them. And I was genuinely shocked. (For context I grew up in a very, very homogenous white nationalist religion, and then had parents who would only help with college expenses if I attended that religions college which is also very much not diverse). Then I think the most powerful thing for me was genuinely people’s stories on Instagram. Seeing other people’s lived experience, getting to be exposed to ideas I had never come into contact with. I learned it was my job to keep doing the work and picked up the task, but I would have NEVER gained the curiosity without someone saying hey no, this is hatred.
It sounds like you were open to changing your ideas too and then recognized you had work to do without it ruining your sense of self.
I am not sure what the answers are, but I do know I once believed deeply that my religion co-signing hatred was an act of choosing God and consequently not hatred at all.
I’m ashamed of that now, but I also find hope that if I could outgrow and undo, so could others.
But someone had to hate me first 😂
I have since written all those women letters.
You mention curiosity on your part, which I think is key to persuasion, learning, and growth. Unfortunately, it seems to be missing more than not in a lot of people, along with critical thinking skills. With the algorithm-controlled media silos we exist in now, people receive dopamine hits every time their biases are confirmed and aren't likely to question or criticize anything that confirms their bias. Conversely, because their biases are constantly being confirmed by the content they're being served, they immediately reject anything that challenges their biases and dig in. It's going to be tough to break through this issue with people who aren't naturally curious and open to learning and growth. If you have any insight into how people held you accountable (such as words they used, tone, etc.), that might be helpful. But it might also be that you were more receptive to challenging your beliefs. Either way, thank you for sharing!
I know this won’t sound very popular or maybe be even helpful, but genuinely people just didn’t allow me to be comfortable.
I had PLENTY of reinforcement of my beliefs, and I had plenty of echos.
But I also had people who just also didn’t shy away from telling me this is so dismissive of other people. This ignores my mom’s experience with abortion, etc. etc. etc. Maybe one of the valuable pieces of information is no one attacked me or only told me they hated me, but they did hold strong boundaries. As an example, I did have someone say I can’t follow you this is hurtful to me and I’m disappointed.
And that was after sharing something I hadn’t even really read I just was in such an echo chamber I didn’t check myself before even sharing. (This is so embarrassing but I’m trying to be helpful). I genuinely believe there was enough discomfort I just learned to first think twice. And that space to think twice, made space for curiosity that was then filled with other voices willing to be vulnerable and share.
I will also admit I am a naturally curious person, I like seeking information, I don’t mind challenging topics — but I was also just in such an echo chamber of fear that validated my stances — I truly believe the people who introduced discomfort into my reality did so much for me. Otherwise my only worldview was this idea that Christian family values are being attacked. This sounds insane to me now, but this is the messaging I was getting at church, online, in math class on campus, EVERYWHERE.
Some of the people who challenged stances I shared are still my good friends today, and that’s valuable too. People who will hold you accountable AND talk you through your stance so you can actually find your blind spots without immediately being called a horrible person. I think we often underestimate how much curiosity inside a very homogenous community is snuffed out and threatened with a loss of community. So the people outside it who would share and also listen helped too. But absolutely also the people who held boundaries with me were invaluable.
As a small caveat I don’t want to give the impression I was some insane bully lol. These were not chronic experiences. I ran into this discomfort only a few times. But still now years and years later I feel those moments and I remember them, and I think they mattered. My views were very singular, very accidentally prejudice, and extremely dismissive.
Some people simply refused to be dismissed. And that mattered.
I hope this helps at all I’m doing my best to describe 😅
Thank you. I really appreciate your thoughtful responses. Feedback from first-hand experiences is always helpful!
My experience is that “uneducated” or “misinformed” white women are very defensive about those monikers being used. They want to feel like their experience and wisdom matter. They don’t care about your advanced degree or your quote from The Atlantic. They care about their daily lives, and the impact of the government’s decision-making on them personally.
I haven’t been quick to extend that kind of empathy. But I can see how it’s needed.
Yes! And in fact, touting our advanced degrees is not only not impressive to them, but they consider it a hit to our credibility. I think it’s better to leave that out of it.
This is my experience too. My MIL (dropped out of college) posted an article after the election 2016 that took umbrage with the uneducated moniker because people who don’t have degrees often are experts in other areas. It wasn’t wrong, but it also sounded really grievance filled (i.e. voting on vibes rather than reasons).
Yeah, that makes complete sense. I’ve been thinking about this all morning from reading Emily’s article.. how do we create “vibes” for this group that align with their value system, but vibes infused with justice and truth and logic.
Agreed with the comments saying they're not really sure how to do this. I think part of the problem (at least for me) is our difference in values are over very personal issues/human rights issues. I don't know how to have a conversation over our differences without getting emotional, which leads to them getting defensive or just disregarding what we're saying. HOW do you have a conversation to validate their concerns and also convince them of your own, when their values are deeply hurtful to you? As a Latina voter who has gone through IVF, I just can't have some of these conversations without being triggered.
Would love to hear how others have done this and how to not immediately get emotional, if anyone feels comfortable sharing.
This is exactly where I am. I haven’t been able to speak to my trump-voting, 72-yo mother since the election because it feels so personal. How can you say you love me and my kids and then vote against their lives? I know she doesn’t see it this way. But I don’t have the capacity (right now, at least) to have a productive conversation. Perhaps just more time is needed for for the emotions to settle.
Your feelings are completely valid and they also may shift over time. You can set boundaries that you are comfortable with. That doesn’t have to mean never talking to your mom again if you had a good relationship before. Bottom line is that we have to live with these people for the most part, but we still have to protect ourselves while we do the good work. I felt this exact same way and I ended up crying and telling my mom exactly how I felt. It wasn’t even received the best, but I still felt a whole lot better after. The bandaid was ripped off and it actually led to us discussing how we may want to do some activism together about the things we agree on. Just wanted to share because this is so hard and there are so many ways it can go. Sending a lot of love to you. It’s really hard to navigate all of this right now.
Thank you so much for sharing this. It’s a huge win that you were able to talk with her about it, even if her response wasn’t all that you might have hoped. I successfully set a boundary with mine today by texting her that I’m too upset to talk right now, after she tried calling me. I’ve realized that the conversation must be had at some point soon though, however messy, if we’re to continue being in any kind of authentic relationship.
I feel for you. It’s so incredibly difficult. Sending you love. Please check back in whenever you end up having the conversation. I will be thinking about you!
I was raised conservative, then was apolitical for a long time. Accounts like Emily’s made me curious and helped me realize I didn’t know what my actual beliefs were. I did a ton of reading and now feel that I have pretty concrete beliefs that I can easily defend with data and anecdote.
All that to say, after the election I posted my recommended reading list to my IG with blurbs about why I liked the book and what it taught me. I recieved a lot of great responses from both liberal and conservative friends. Maybe it won’t change minds, but it’s a start!
Would love to know your list!! That's something I can emulate in my peer group on IG with similar results i think.
Sure! I’ll list them below. If you want my blurbs as well, I can send you screenshots of my story or something.
The Chaos Machine - Max Fisher
Think Again - Adam Grant
Jesus and John Wayne - Kristin Kobes Du Mez
Dark Money - Jane Mayer
The Nordic Theory of Everything - Anu Partanen
Poverty, By America - Matthew Desmond
Caste - Isabel Wilkerson
Upstream - Dan Heath
The Changing World Order - Ray Dalio
Vulture Capitalism - Grace Blakely
Would love other suggestions too!
Caste was really so eye opening. Loved it. Wish it was required reading in high school. Her book The Warmth of Other Suns is also great! Another great one is The Meth Lunches by Kim Foster.
Completely agree that Caste should be required reading! I'll add those two books to my tbr, thanks!
Thank you!!
I was thinking about this today. The messaging in my echo chamber of TikTok is that we should stop communicating with anyone who voted for Trump. While that makes white women feel better, it doesn’t give us anywhere to go, give us any votes to gain. Building coalition is one of the only ways forward for the left
Right. As white women, we are still in danger under this administration, but we still hold so much privilege and protection compared to marginalized groups. I believe the onus is on us to figure out how this happened, find our common values, and spend the next 4 years learning how to talk with other women. There are too many of these women to just walk away from. Tempting though it may be, it’s not really feasible and certainly won’t yield the result we want in the next election cycle.
I think this is such a valid point. We focus so much on our virtue and do that by finger pointing, wearing stupid bracelets to signal we are “one of the good ones,” posting quotes and that’s makes us feel superior. Yet many (I’m not saying all) of these women didn’t lift a finger to get Kamala elected or to spread her message. Whats done is done. You’re right time to build that bridge.
Yes! I think we have to frame this properly, too - I am a straight, cis white woman, so I need to use that privilege to reach out so the queer and trans folx, as well as women of color, aren’t being forced to do the work that is SO much more treacherous. I don’t think non-queer white women should be cutting off Trump-voting family just for that, we are the ones who must do the outreach.
To be honest, I don't know where to start. I do believe, though, that we need to meet people where they are at. Not where we expect them to be, not where we think they should be, but where they are actually at. It's really easy to fall into the trap of immediately writing someone off whose views don't align perfectly with our own because of how polarizing everything has become. I have been guilty of dismissing even close family members because I feel our value systems do not align based on ideas of very specific problems where there is nuance. This has become a "I'm a good person because of what I believe and you are a bad person because of how you voted." In order to keep myself from spiraling into a dark depression, I have to believe that the majority of people don't want to cause harm to others, but that they voted out of desperation and panic about things that directly affect them. I'm incredibly angry that more than half America voted the way they did. I'm very angry that we will have to endure another Trump presidency. I'm very angry that people can sit behind a keyboard and type whatever vile, awful thing they want and there are no repercussions, but because I care so much about the things I voted for, I want to genuinely connect with people who were taken advantage of by the fear mongering so that what is happening right now doesn't happen again. This election cycle has activated a part of me that has taken a back seat. I want to have the hard conversations and I want to listen in order to find a solution. I try to view every person I come in contact with as not an extension of Donald Trump but a scared American who was grossly taken advantage of by him. Of course there are a lot of bad apples...but we have to start somewhere.
I live in a very strongly pro-Trump area. I genuinely am not sure how to do this. I lived here for years until college. It was only leaving here and having actual life experiences during college and grad school that I started to realign my values and change my views. The problem is that these women often do think they are doing "what's best for everyone" because I really think they can't fathom that not everyone is in the same situation they are in. I think the key is making them understand not everyone is like them but I don't know how to do that.
These comments are so thoughtful and insightful. Im thankful for everyone here. I work as a family nurse practitioner at a direct primary care. This allows for us to know use insurance and people pay a monthly fee. Im been a nurse for 10 years serving women. In postpartum and labor and delivery and the women are not well on both sides. The alexa clark and MAHA is absolutely blaring over in primary care. Im constantly asked about seed oils, lists of supplements to go over, begging me to help while calling any prescription medication is labeled as cancer inducing. FEAR for peoples health is driving a lot of my patient care. And this practice i work at is only mds and apps. This is not functional medicine with natropaths we fight to find the medium line at all times. The distrust of vaccines, mammograms, hormone treatment is the work i have to combat daily. And let me tell you i have so much empathy. This women are dismissed in every aspect of their life. They are unwell! And they need time validation and grace and we have to build so much rapport with each other before we can even reach common ground. Im doing the work daily with both parties of women but its not enough. I want to fuel the other side of alexa clark. And me the wellness mama we ALL need. Not to mention my daughters were born IVF and the thoughts right after the election were they took away my rights and my beautiful daughters. And the reality is i will still show up and take the time to explain why we dont recommend thermograms, please do not be afraid of seed oils, etc etc. IF anyone wants to help to build a social platform for ALL of this. Please message me, i want to work for you all ❤️
Someone I follow on IG (Fred Joseph) made a comment I thought was very accurate. He said that white women voting for Trump view themselves as white first and women second. They voted to protect the whiteness at the expense of their gender. I think there is a lot of truth to that, and it's an interesting angle to consider in Emily's discussion of influencing.
I think the best way we reach other women is through our shared beliefs/interests. A “yes, and” approach wherein we affirm their core values (for example, motherhood matters) while laying out how those areas thrive with left-leaning policies for ALL individuals, not only those with privilege. The idea that traditional families flounder under democratic rule is simply untrue. As a new full-time mother (who works part-time from home without help) I’ve found that tapping into commonalities that benefit us all can go a long way. Childcare and rights for women and LGBTQIA+ folks (these policies will undoubtedly impact our kids!) helps speak to these mama bear types with logical reasoning and hopefully engenders a sense of camaraderie.
How are you responding to these women who say things like, “Trump gave the power to the states for abortion. He didn’t ban them” or “my body my choice unless it’s a vaccine” I want to be understanding. I also want to shove my head through drywall.
1. “Ok that’s true. What did the states do?”
2. “You’re right that was inconsistent with my body my choice framing. Rather than bodily autonomy, what about other women having the ability to get an abortion is concerning to you.”
I feel like we have to start with curiosity and see our own myopic views for what they are.
I say that now, here, but I am not ready to be this bigger person yet. I have such a visceral reaction in my body when I hear support for Trump. It must be that they see it a similar way - a visceral reaction to dems - and we have to understand what is fueling those reactions. One day, when the dust settles and I don’t want to scream in all their faces 🫠.
I’ve started having these “conversations” on a post on IG. There has actually been some good exchanges. One person even thanked me for bringing new information to her attention. It’s hard though. And I don’t understand where people are getting information. Some of it is so outrageous. Anyway. In this together. Would really love a playbook of responses though lol.
I like Alia’s responses below!
To the first question I might say something like “yes, the states are now trying to regulate abortions. Why do you think they need to be regulated?” [I don’t know that I’d personally concede that he left it up to the states. I’m not convinced that he’s not going to try to ban abortions on a federal level., not by explicitly saying “abortions are banned everywhere,” but by making it functionally impossible. But I digress] Then really listen to what they say. Depending on their answers, the follow up could go in any number of directions. But I feel like their objections are more often than not rooted in protection of the unborn baby, they see abortion as murder, the standard pro-life argument, and if that’s the case, then why would that be left up to the states? If they truly think it’s murder, then why would it be okay for a state to say that it’s allowed? If it’s because they want it to not happen after a certain period in the pregnancy, why should that be left up the states? If this person thinks there is a point at which abortions shouldn’t be allowed, then why shouldn’t it be universal at the federal level, why should states have the power to pick different timelines? And if there is a certain point at which this person feels it’s no longer acceptable for a woman to have an abortion for whatever reason, what would they think if a state voted to allow it up until later date? If we’re saying we’re leaving it up to states then that that should be okay right? We’re seeing lots of women suffering (or even dying) in states where there are restrictions on abortions, why should the protections of women’s health (and even lives) be left up to the states? A woman shouldn’t be subject to the whims of her particular state, of course, and hopefully these questions might lead them to question their thought process and to agree with that on their own.
Ugh, the vaccines [screams to the heavens]. I hate that vaccines have become something so political now. I guess, it’s a question of if they’re saying that because they are anti-vax or anti-abortion or both! If it’s anti-vax, I would say something like “the choice to have an abortion in many ways can’t be compared to the choice to get vaccinated. An abortion affects only the person who was pregnant; it is not contagious. A woman who had an abortion coming into contact with other women is not going to make them have an abortion; whereas, a woman who is sick with COVID or the flu or measles may spread that disease to others.
Also, vaccine requirements are not new. If you went to public school like me, you had to have certain vaccinations to keep yourself and your fellow classmates safe. That is the point of vaccines, they are in service of the great good. We have gotten them without the politically-inspired pushback that we saw in response to the COVID vaccines (vaccines that Trump fast tracked and bragged about by the way) for decades. Also, some people did choose not to get vaccinated, no one showed up at their house forcing them to get vaccinated. But there were consequences to choosing not get to vaccinated as with any other choice we make in life.” If it’s both, then I’d add Alia’s response at the end, I like that one! And I feel like it would circle back to my conversation at the top.
Thanks for your thoughtful response! I feel like my brain went offline for a few days after the election. It’s starting to work again lol. The anti-vax stuff is maddening in some ways given we’ve all likely been vaccinated as kids for public (and personal) safety. But suddenly, they’re not to be trusted? I’m working on listening more and arguing less as a general rule! Thank you again for your insight — I’m going to circle back to it in future conversations!
Gosh, I hear you! I know it wasn’t *everyone’s* fault, but I was angry at literally everyone Wednesday and Thursday. I’m starting to calm down and I’m able to be a little more rational now haha. I like your plan to listen more and argue less. I used to shy away from arguing because I didn’t feel like I could reliably pull up relevant facts and figures but it seems like facts don’t actually matter that much to people anymore. People voted based on the way they feel, so that’s what I’m listening for now.
I've been thinking a lot about this lately, and I really think Pete Buttigieg models this so well. He's been on this approach for years. Living in middle America, it's exhausting how much people talk down to you. I don't want to coddle people whom I believe directly endangered me and my daughter and so so many other people, but we have to figure out how to welcome them in, not talk down to and ostracize. We can't just lecture all the time.
I think Democrats need to learn how to reconnect to peoples emotions. They are great at academic talk but that did not connect to the working class.
This right here. The Democrats really need to work on their messaging. They aren’t connecting with the working class, and they didn’t really connect with the MAHA women. The messaging has always kind of been “Trump is a danger” and not really about the ways they would address the concerns that are pushing people to vote for Trump.